
For
Tim Burgess, of
The Charlatans (UK), reinvention became in large part, the bright spot of his group’s creative process. Tim (whose own muse of invention this time around was borne on the forming of one prolific note: an “F” sharp―see more in the interview that follows) was recently very quick to note, that the most interesting turn for him was his band’s brand new album.
“....it’s kind of resonating in a way, that, I really hoped it would...and [doing] what, in a way, none of our records have done before. They’ve never crept up on you [like this]...”
“Who We Touch,” released earlier this month on Cooking Vinyl in the U.K. and on The End Records in the U.S., became a positive output for The Charlatans in both shape and form. However, the work for this album didn’t begin and end with The Charlatans, the group’s management team or their label: it became something far more...poetic.
A collaboration with Tim’s favorite band from his teens; the anarchy-punk group Crass, and their most outspoken creators―Penny Rimbaud and Gee Vaucher, who are described by Tim in a youthful tone, with grinning candor, marveling at their iconic status and what it still means to him: “You know, they’ve lived in the same house since the ‘60s. They still have punks....camping in their garden.”
For those of you looking for an album from a band that you know, or that you thought you knew; "Who We Touch" by The Charlatans was meant for you. Tim has been setting up every show with the remix of "Love Is Ending" by The Horrors well before the band goes on, and with the material included with the double LP; the new album is just brimming with extras and interesting outtakes. The text that follows is from the first part of our interview with Tim which touches on the new album, the band's history, personal experiences, the group's writing process, and on a slightly bittersweet note―the group's former manager; Creation's Alan McGee. For Part II of this series, please check back this weekend.
Girl About Town: We've noticed that you're loving the Red Bull both on stage and off….?
Tim Burgess: To be honest with you, well; I’ve been pretty much trying to be caffeine-free for about, a year and a half. But I’ve been [on tour] here, now....I don’t know, maybe 8, or 9, 10 days now, and it’s a bit annoying, but well... (it keeps you up?) it just, it gives me that little bit of perkiness.
Does your music make you get into the songs on stage or is that a persona? You seem to have this real playfulness about you on stage. The lead singer of Sherlock’s Daughter (your openers on this tour) just, has such joy on stage: and I feel that way about you too...
I always thought that I was moody on stage…!
As in 'a moody bastard'?
Yeah, I don’t know what it is. I don’t want to think that I become like a completely different person on stage or anything like that. But, you know, listening to music makes me really happy. We’re seeing people in there [the venue] and knowing that....that, the music that I’ve just put together, you know, before we play and stuff like that....is really important to me as well. And, just listening to music makes me really happy, and makes me become something else. Going about your day-to-day life; it’s just kind of normal and mundane, and then, as soon as [when] the music gets turned on, it’s like “woo-oo-oo-ooh”. You know?

1. You're Not Very Well
2. Weirdo
3. Blackened Blue Eyes
The Charlatans (UK) live @ Johnny Brenda's - Sept. 15, 2010
If you could choose a type of music―I guess my thought would be, that if you had a thought bubble over your head with music in it: what would it be? What kind of music is turning you on lately?
I’m quite into noise music at the moment. You know, like, the gray area. Sometimes if you go into the music store; it’d be like avant-garde, slash “Noise”, slash ‘gray area’. So that’s kind of what I’m really into at the moment. I don’t really know if you’ve seen this band yet come on tour....but we’ve just gone onto a remix by them. The Horrors remix a version of "Love is Ending". It’s kind of like this dissonant-noise-abstract thing....it’s like a warm- and fuzzy feeling and I feel like if there were a bubble over my head; then this would be it.
It’s interesting that you chose a genre as abstract as noise because I feel as though this album is so accessible, so upbeat.
Yeah, that’s interesting. I think it is. I think with the album, I think it’s positive―first off. You know. And when you’re writing a song: sometimes you might have an end section, or something like that, and you think that, ‘Mm...that’s not positive enough’, and then you turn it around a bit and because it becomes positive the whole song becomes positive. Do you know what I mean?
Although I was conscious that I wanted to make a positive record; I did want it to have dark moments (obviously), I wanted it to have abstract moments, I wanted it to be, ehm, deep on a level that we’d never really touched upon before, and I wanted it to be shiny...all of those kinds of things.
You sound really proud.
I think, what I wanted to do....was achieved, I think. It’s, like―really, what I really wanted to make, was an epic film. You know, of....like, ‘gigantic proportions’? I don’t know, but, when you say stuff like that you’re gonna fail....but, [that’s] really what we tried to do.
I’ve seen your band play many times over the years; you played Detroit quite a bit in the '90s and the last time that I saw you was at Industry in Pontiac, Michigan!
Oh wow, yeah, that was a great one! I got my tattoo when we did that show.
Over the years, you’ve never stopped playing―but I feel as though this album is different for you, and maybe that’s because it just seems to have popped up, and really come out of the blue for me. I was really expecting this to be the late summer of Teenage Fanclub with the new release of their album “Shadows” coming out. I was so surprised when I heard your new album; because I felt like―to me, this [yours] was the album that I wish they had written, somehow. That this [album] was what I was waiting for.
Oh, that’s a really big, great compliment. Thank you.
I felt like you really, you just really hit the nail on the head with a lot of your songs: it is really positive, it is really shiny―it’s a great album. And, on some level I almost feel as though....with the 20th Anniversary of “Some Friendly” this year….
You think that crept in there, somewhere? Yeah, I do too.
Yeah, I feel like the sunshine is coming out for you, and that it’s a great time to be back.
I think so too, what was kind of weird about doing the “Some Friendly” anniversary is that, you know that was obviously running parallel with....Well, I was writing the new record, as well. And I think, ehm....four or five years ago―I might have picked over “Some Friendly”, and been thinkin’ ‘Yeah, you know, it was a long time ago, that record...I don’t really want to see it again.’ But, I felt really great about seeing it. Well, noo....ehm, maybe because…
Probably because it’s something to do with the cycle of it being twenty years. And then, we’re writing a new record as well, and then; I actually thought...'You know what? “White Shirt” was a great second track on that album,' and we need to have a really great second track on this album, like a real positive one, and that was “My Foolish Pride”. So we kind of, like, that was basically: I tried to rewrite “White Shirt”. It’s nothing like it. Not even the same notes, of course, but the same feeling.

What I love about “My Foolish Pride” is it’s underlying clever melody. When you listen to a recorded song in your home, versus hearing it live; sometimes there are so many layers that are built in―that you miss the important parts underneath. There is a very clever line built into the lower melody of the music that took me completely by surprise with its bit of soul riff, I feel like it's really prevalent live [in the song] as well….
Oh, yeah! That, ‘bum-bum-de-dum-dum, de-dum-bah-de-dum-dum’ yes, I think it’s a clever play on "Time Has Come Today" [The Chambers Brothers] or something like that…
I started meditating....a year and a half ago....so I think that’s been a real influence on the record. Like transcendental meditation....[like] the Maharishi, taught the Beatles. I started doing that....you know, I wanted it to have an effect on the record. So I like meditating twenty minutes in the morning and twenty minutes in the evening, and before I would sing, I would do, like, an extra ten minutes (or something like that) to experiment a little bit, to see..... I thought that would actually be quite good to...[to try]. I know that David Lynch is a huge 'meditator'…
I did not know that. That’s interesting.
Yeah, he’s been meditating for, something, like twenty-five years.
That actually makes quite a lot of sense…!
It makes a LOT of sense. When you watch his films, and you start thinking, ‘Oh my God, this is like really deep, and transcendental.’ And I thought, well; I’m doing it properly, but I’ve only been doing for a year so it’s not going to be integrated into my spirit, body, soul, like―as intensely as it is with him, but you know, it will have some sort of effect, I’m sure, and I thought, well....
Do you feel more calm about how you look at things?
Yeah, yeah, more calm, more....ah, braver; I think. But, obviously I like the idea that I don’t drink anymore because you know I think five years and no alcohol, is really great―and no drugs. I think, yeah, it's kind of....I dunno, I just think that it's, that, everything that I do is real now....really, real.

Tim Burgess / GAT Interview Mini-Audio
Good for you, Tim. This kind of brings us back to one of my previous comments in that your onstage persona....I guess I would describe it as being very ‘playful’, and I’m sure that there are some people out there who (not knowing that you are so personable), if they didn’t know you: might think; ‘is this guy on drugs, or just too happy all the time, or…’?
Oh, yeah! No, and good. No, I’m glad you’re saying that. I’m the least on drugs person, you could imagine, and when I was on drugs; I wasn’t very personable. Ha! But, you know―I had a good time on drugs to be honest, but it was just towards the end that you get older and you get over it....
On a completely different page, do you mind if we talk politics for a moment?
About women?
Oh, because we're 'Girl' About Town? No, not specifically about women, but--okay; do you feel political when it comes to women?
Well, you know, on the album....there’s a track by―a hidden track―with a guy doing this big speech thing over top of it named Penny Rimbaud, and he’s in a band called Crass; have you heard this track yet?
I'm familiar with Crass, from like, high school years....wow, yes. Go on.
So, at the end of the album, you go into that. This guy doing this big, speech thing. So the very last track on the album [Who We Touch], is called “I Sing the Body Eclectic” it’s a hidden track; part of the “You Can Swim” thing....at the end. And, it’s just like--he was in Crass, and they were a political band from the late ‘70s, right, and he’s now something like sixty-seven years old, and he was their drummer.
We got into (going back into whether I felt political about women).... When I was thirteen years old, Crass put out this album called “Penis Envy” and it was all about Women’s issues and it was all about Women’s liberation. And, ehm, I pretty much became a feminist over night, and I was like thirteen years old, and it’s all down to Penny, in a lot of ways.
Basically, Crass, for the first two albums, it was mostly Steve Ignorant doing the vocals and a couple of the songs by the women in the band; Eve Libertine, and Joy De Vivre, and Gee Voucher. But, on the third album, it was just all of the girls just singing and no men at all, but Penny still wrote some of the lyrics, so it’s all really cool. It’s quite amazing to get The Charlatans and Crass on one record, I think.
That’s really cool, Penny's voice is haunting. Speaking of liberation and politics; since you are living in the United States now, what are your thoughts on Proposition 8?
Well, that’s a big deal because I live in Los Angeles. It was kind of one of the most intense things that I’ve seen really, in my small community. There was one guy voting for it and, one guy voting against it within a block of eachother, and there was....cars going past―quite violently....not opposed to it. And then, cars going past the guy who was....you know, against it. Of course―live and let live, always have been. What did I feel about it? I think it actually got through now thankfully, so...
It’s an interesting time; politically.
I think marriage is, kind of...you know, it’s about two people, isn’t it? As a bond, and a commitment--it’s legal. Equality, yeah, but it’s a legal contract. And if people want that contract then, they should be able [to have it]....
Having just played “Best Buy” the other night; did you know anything about the recent controversy surrounding both this company and Target in regards to their recent political donations to MN Forward (Target CEO apologizes)? Not necessarily that you were informed of this ahead of your gig date; but what are your thoughts on this as a practice/being in a band that might play a venue such as this?
You might find a threat, that is tied to something else in anything. Sad about Target though, I don’t care about Best Buy to be honest, but I’m sad about Target....
Well, I think that neither were well informed and that it was all an economic decision, and in the spirit of getting a tax break more than anything else; which doesn’t make it okay, necessarily, but it means that they weren’t very well informed, or looking to be informed.
I’m all for partners being able to get the same, I’m married, you know what I mean; and I mostly get insurance for her, but I’ve got no insurance for myself. It’s kind of like, you know, the whole thing about that, is, that it just seems so bizarre....When I go to my local hospital or the big hospital in Los Angeles where I live (and it’s so just, fucking huge) and it’s just so overwhelming, it’s....unbelievable....
I grew up in Canada, and we have our health care system there. It's like that in the United Kingdom as well?
In the U.K. there’s something called 'National Health,' and everyone is entitled to free health-care, which is incredible, you know?
Do you miss that? Would you move home again?
Yes, I would move home again. If I got really sick and I was living in L.A.....if I was in L.A. or whatever, and if I, well, I would probably have to go and have any operation or whatever I needed in England...and my wife is American. and if something happened, like if either I needed an operation, or if my wife―if she needed assistance, and I couldn’t be there; I would want her to get the best health care around. Absolutely.
It’s interesting hearing your take...
Sure, I mean, being caring. I care about what happens...I care about people.

Getting back to brighter topics: let’s talk more about the album and your current tour; what excites you the most about the current album?
Well, the album’s actually only been out for a couple of days....I’ll tell you what it is: I think The Charlatans have had many, many, many, kind of like, phases. You know? Our first phase ever: our first album went direct to the top of the charts, was an ‘instant smash’, the second one was like....a flop, a complete flop. Alright? The third one was building it back up again. It’s like, you know, it got to maybe, number, maybe....ten in the charts, or something like that. We’ve had all of these highs and lows....we’ve experienced everything! That’s what I see, I don’t see it as a...: there’s no down side to it, at all.
You’ve experimented...
Yeah, we’ve experimented a lot. The thing that I love about this one, is that people weren’t expecting a lot. Expectations were low, or, medium: or there weren’t expectations at all. People ask me, what were my expectations on the last album, and I said, ‘I don’t have any’ and I just wanted to put it out, you know? This one, what I’m really hearing is, or what I’m really enjoying is, is that people are hearing it, and it’s doing okay--something like number eighteen or something like that on the first week. What....well, people are hearing it, and it’s: more people are going out and getting it, and it’s kind of resonating in a way, that, I really hoped it would...and
[doing] what, in a way, none of our records have done before. They’ve
never crept up on you [like this] and then build and built and build and build.... And I think, and I feel, that, the more people hear this, that the more people will get turned on to it....and just....I think, that....it’s just got its own....
[Tim pauses thoughtfully]
Well...I read this pamphlet, I read this pamphlet and....and, while we were making the album, and it said that the World rotates to the tone of ‘F’ sharp. Right? So the whole World, it just revolves...and it’s like, so it’s goin’....‘auuoohmmm...’
Like an ‘Om’?
Yeah, like an ‘om’ kind of thing, and I thought, that’s really interesting―I’m going to write every song on this album in an ‘F’ sharp! Right?
And did you?
I wrote about five or six, immediately, you know, yeah! No, no, but I mean, you know--it’s kind of, I just thought it was, kind of, it’s an interesting story. And, obviously, we wrote about twenty songs for the album....maybe four or five of them ended up on the album and they’re in ‘F’ sharp, but the beginning; the very first one is in ‘F’ sharp, “Love Is Ending”...and “You Can Swim” is in ‘F’ sharp―the very last track. And, I just....hope, that, with these little...with this tone; it’s going to attract people from all over! It’s just people won’t be able to resist it! That’s what I thought...!
Like the Pied Piper...!
Yeah, man...! [Tim winks while making the 'clik-clik' of a camera-sound]
Ha ha, you want to be the Pied Piper? [ribbing Tim]
I don’t know! Is that....so bad...?
You are the Pied Piper, Tim.
Oh, well, thank you very kindly... That’s very nice of you.
For The Charlatans, the beginning of their recent tour brought them to play dates in Washington, Hoboken, New York, and most recently; Philadelphia. A few days earlier, Girl About Town had witnessed the group in top form playing at Maxwell’s in the aforementioned Hoboken, New Jersey. Later the next week, It was pre-show in Philadelphia and we found ourselves speaking in the stairwell of Johnny Brenda's to Tim Burgess, right after he had thoughtfully finished taking a song request from a fan named 'Loraine' who had shown up early to see the group (requesting, the now fateful, “Tellin’ Stories” during which drummer Jon Brookes collapsed due to a seizure, and of which he is thankfully now recovering).
For more updates on The Charlatans's tour dates and on beloved long-time drummer Jon Brookes; make sure that you check in with their official site www.thecharlatans.net
Earlier yesterday, in an official email from the group, it was announced that they will replace Jon Brookes (in the interim) while he undergoes treatment for what was discovered to be a brain tumor. The band will soon continue their tour, sans Jon, so that he may have time to take care of his health (and we hope) fully recover....Today, drummer Peter Salisbury of The Verve was announced as the group's choice to play the remaining live dates in place of Jon Brookes.
The Charlatans (UK) - band site / cooking vinyl records / myspace